to any guests that come here i guess (Read 3,113 times)

[lazulum]

Ah, completely forgot, the NHK has been trying to help people learn Japanese

Here's the link
www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/learnjapanese/

I think that it may be useful, haven't tried it out myself though

[Aeon]

lazulum
oh, nice. i'll check out the nhk thing. i looked at the top 100 kanji page, i've got about 70% of them memorized, but i ought to learn the rest properly too. as long as learning doesn't include stroke order because scary

spongelevator
it's probably best to wait to get into a uc, i'm glad i'm not at one yet or my money would be going down the drain. at least for me, online classes suck and i've had to postpone the classes i was looking forward to next semester because no way am i going to learn piano just by watching
my method of learning japanese at the start was learn sentence structure, then just play a japanese rpg and use a dictionary or hiragana/katakana chart whenever there was something i wanted to know about, and it worked out pretty well. at first i was spending half an hour trying to figure out how to see my stats, but a couple weeks later i was cruising through level ups knowing what i was getting stronger in and popping off skills with various abilities. (maybe a bit of trial and error was involved but hey, that's science)
i rolled into semester one of japanese ready to learn kanji and it's worked out pretty well since then, until physical classes were cancelled

[lazulum]

Aeon
You may dread learning the stroke orders now, but down the line that will help with remembering a lot of the kanji. It's a bit of a cultural thing too, when speaking to a Japanese person if you start doing the stroke orders they know the kanji immediately haha

Trend in Japan among the young is they don't practice the stroke orders enough, they type a lot more now. So their memory of the various kanjis is not as strong as it is with older generations. Interesting trend.

In time it gets a lot easier, especially when you get the stroke order down for the various radicals.

[spongelevator]

there was some core 6k vocab anki deck that had kanji/vocabulary with example sentences and audio that I downloaded but yeah I found it pretty difficult to remember what the kanji looked like so I should probably write them as well lol
I found two decks with radicals but they were very different so I will probably have to look more

yeah I do not have big moneys
only a handful of quarters and a two dollar bill
I go to community college first because guaranteed UC transfer and this coronavirus stuff works well because I can just drop like four AP classes and do the online community college classes in advance lmao
and then I'll only need to do like 16 credits a semester though there isn't any japanese classes so the fun is limited to biology classes where you go to the desert to hit cactus with stick
also is learning grammar gonna require me to also learn the vocabulary that comes with it
or is it better to just focus on getting the concepts with enough words to be able to read that the silica gel packet says don't eat
I am sorry if questions are already answered by using a grammar guide for a week but I must make sure so I do not do terebi wa tabemasen lol

[lazulum]

Yeah that Anki is a good supplement for study. I'll make some myself sometimes for terminologies of my area of study. Just make sure you're reading those vocabularies in context as well, find sentences that use them online, or audio/video that uses them. You will remember them a lot better. Not only that, you will be better at detecting them and perhaps even using them productively.

2-dollar bill is neat, Jefferson is cool.
I'm not one of much money either at the moment haha.

Learning the grammar is in a sense another form of vocabulary. The distinction isn't too fine, in some academic circles they'll use the term "lexicogrammar". It's a tool to communicate meaning, so focus first and foremost on the meanings that you want to communicate. To that end looking into authentic language use (of Japanese) will do you a lot of good. A grammar book or something of that form would be useful insofar as a dictionary is, good as a reference, but not as the main means of learning.

[lazulum]

Also, been meaning to get permission to use Chuunagon (Japanese corpus). Japanese corpora are not as easily accessible as English Corpora (e.g., COCA, COHA, etc.). When I do, I can pull concordances for you based off of whatever lexicogrammar you're looking to practice.

Although that may be more useful once you get off the ground so to speak. Get that basic, core knowledge.

One last pointer, Anglosphere people learning Japanese in Japan get jokingly nicknames "Watashi was" sometimes. You don't have to say 「私は」every time you are saying something related to yourself. In fact most times you don't have to. Will take sometime getting used to probably, English likes to have the subject stated.
However, if your professor requires it though, しょうがないね

[spongelevator]

yeah I heard about people using anki for stuff like biology because of how much information there is that they need to know
the vocab in the deck has one example sentence and occasionally I was able to create my own or at least think of some way to get it, though I am not as sure how to find stuff online
I probably need to start from the beginning again at this point and hopefully I can answer some of my questions by doing so lol

I dunno if it's true but I heard some cashier didn't believe $2 bills were real and called the police when handed one
$2 bill will be treated equally along with the other bills one day

I've got a few grammar books and then a handful of manga but I think the only japanese book I have that isn't those is some weird high school entrance exam test packet
hopefully that stuff along with the nutrition facts on a box of coffee will do

oh there is new post while I made this one lol

I tried looking up chuunagon but I basically just found a document, a dictionary entry, and a restaurant
I also do not know what corpus is the definition I found was collection of texts
well I am sorry but I do not comprehend 
are you by any chance a linguistics scholar

also yeah I heard about both usage of watashi being formal or feminine and also how subject sometimes isn't included
I heard ore's a more masculine form of boku but I also heard it's either more casual or rude
it's a little more difficult to get so I wonder what keigo would be like lol


oh yeah second edit
I just remembered I also have diary of a wimpy kid rodrick rules in japanese 
I would assume it was translated to japanese so would it be bad to use because of that
also sorry for image quality I took that image with literal 2ds

[lazulum]

Manga can be good for practice and extensive reading. If you were a student of mine I would give you more precise pointers. Have to be careful, manga is mostly spoken Japanese and can contain cultural elements that you may miss out on.
For example, I was reading Break Blade volume 17 recently, a character uses the phrase 「虫がいい」, which a dictionary would tell you means "selfish", but so too does 「わがまま」. The former, however, is rarely used by Japanese (although they understand it) but is much more intense, strong, and negative.

The $2 story is probably true, we live in tragic times. But that is a very serious topic with a lot of nuance and best reserved for a dedicated and sober discussion.

I am a scholar of a good few things, I could also tell you a lot about various histories, such as central Europe, some parts of 19th century US history, parts of Japanese history, etc. Used to be good at economics as well but have fallen horribly out of practice, Always illread, always more to read and review, but time is fleeting and limited.

I can offer more help with sources at a later time.

Here is Chunagon: www.ninjal.ac.jp/english/database/type/corpora/

A corpus you can just think of as a massive collection of authentic language use of a given language. COHA, for example, is the Corpus of Historical American English, COCA is the Corpus of Contemporary American English. Great for studying and practicing a language, if you were a student of mine I would help you in using it.

As for 私, that's a different topic, but that is true too. Found that out the hard way (back when I was just learning Japanese), a funny story for another time.
I was talking about marking subject.

For example:

Q：おいくつですか
(How old are you?)

A:20歳です
(I am 20 years-old)
(i.e., not 「私は20歳です」)

Americans when they first start learning Japanese overuse 「私は」(the 「は」marking the subject being about the self, not necessary to state most of the time in Japanese)

I'll reply to posts in other threads later, doing a little at a time, making a lesson plan for a private gig tomorrow. Have to finish a cover letter, too.

[spongelevator]

alright that sounds pretty good most of the stuff I have is 4komas so it probably won't have very intense dialogue though it may have some strange puns or something

also the chunagon requires either phone or mail so yeah that is pretty difficult to access
I tried looking on german corpus and I could not tell how to access anything or what there even was to access so at least I was able to find the register screen lol
probably by the time when I could actually use chunagon I'll have the phone though so it'll work out

oh yeah I noticed that pretty frequently in english
where saying just "twenty" would be considered grammatically incorrect or whatever but that's a pretty normal response
lucky for me I am lazy so I don't even bother speaking full sentences half the time so as long as I get it right that's good
I heard some people will get lost finding what the subject was in japanese though so it probably won't be easy

[Aeon]

oh my god im snoozer, apologies guys. had things goin on now im back

lazulum
thanks for all the japanese info. i've heard the thing about dropping the personal pronoun while speaking before. for me internally translating it to english, it makes things sound casual, but i'm slowly getting used to it

spongelevator
i will vouch for two dollar bills, i've had a couple of them for years. underappreciated, but maybe because most money transaction is digital now

but more importantly how did you get your hands on japanese diary of a wimpy kid? thats crazy, did not think such a thing existed

[spongelevator]

is fine we all got crust going on sometimes



two dollar bills deserve better treatment but sadly they currently exist only as a payment for two (2) chocolate bars from walmart cash register

digitally I have a visa gift card with 3 cents on it but nothing costs 3 cents so it'll probably expire before I can use it



in the LA kinokuniya there was only rodrick rules in japanese and also for $20

I was hoping to find whatever book has the uncle that says "mmmmmmuuuuurrrp" to see how it would be translated but eh this one is fine too

maybe would recommend I'm not sure because it's got a hefty price tag

I spent half christmas money on it

[lazulum]

spongelevator
Yeah the Japanese is probably simpler then too. Good for starters perhaps, try to read aloud as well if you can. Get used to pronouncing it all in sequence. Japanese has a high average rate of delivery, the practice will come in handy.

I received permission with Chunagon recently, but a colleague and contemporary of mine had a back and forth with Ms. In*** of NINJAL. When registering you have to state your purpose for registering, provide your information, and await approval. You receive a code if you are approved. When you get into UC you can probably convince them to extend approval to you. Just assure them that if you do publish any research (i.e., formal research paper) using their corpora that you will submit it to them first (before you publish).

Yeah omission in English is different culturally, usually seen as very low register (very informal). For example, "wrench!" (i.e., "give me the wrench!"). In Japanese you can speak very, very formally and still omit those without issue.

Q: お国は？

A: 米国から日本に参りました。
(i.e., not 「私は米国から日本に参りました」)

Yeah meaning in Japanese is often very contingent on context, this takes a lot of getting used to. Things are not directly stated quite as much as they are in English. And if you ever date a Japanese girl, get ready to practice mind reading hahaha

Aeon

Happy to talk about Japanese, fun topic for me.

Good that you're getting used to it, you're way ahead of the curve then. Learning a language is so much more than just transferring meanings you know onto new sounds, you're starting to really understand that it sounds.

[Aeon]

i am hijacking the conversation because it has been a couple days and i am considering this a catch-all thread since it was the first one we revived:

the photobuckets on the rank things (like the one i have under "ordinary witch" right now) are gone, at least on my end. did a mod do something about it, or are we simply blessed? it says it's still been a while since any mods logged on but perhaps there is a secret one in our midst

also my guy @ebbxxx has continually been online, i've scrolled down to the bottom of the main page where it shows whos been on recently a couple times. say hi, pal

edit: also while i'm talking about random things, i should say that i might not have the chance to respond for a few days, so if you think i've just dipped, i'll be back soon

[spongelevator]

I think something probably happened with photobucket itself because all of our images don't have it anymore
so now I will have to upload my picture except with the photobucket still on it to keep my photobucket power
guy's been coming online since the first day we came here though they're fine probably
a few other people popped in but didn't say anything though with the three of us we have illuminati funny so it works
is fine lol next four days for me is a true test of how long I am willing to stay up and how many hours of sleep I am willing to sacrifice anyway
lazulum has very many subjects to speak of and I enjoy as well

[lazulum]

Aeon

I think using this as a catch-all thread is a fun idea.

Maybe it's my browser but I never had the Photobucket issue on my end actually. Didn't exactly know what everyone was referring to until Spongelevator manually put the watermark on his avatar haha

Yeah @ebbxxx has been on many times, always wondered if he would join a conversation some day. He's only ever posted once, so maybe he's a lurker at heart. I certainly lurk quite a few places where I don't ever post.

No worries, catch you when you get back

spongelevator
Your profile image didn't have a Photobucket watermark now on my end actually. I see what everyone was referring to when they mentioned the Photobucket change now. Might be my browser, wonder why it wasn't showing on my end. I respect the decision to keep the watermark on the profile picture though haha

Yeah I have noticed some people dropping by but not saying anything. Some Violent Purple Hat if I remembered the name right, there was that kaossakana who I saw drop by a few days back, too.

Now that you mention it, there was that @viral guy here for a minute, wonder what happened to him

We are a triumvirate haha

I know that feeling, good luck with your trials

Thank you for your kind words, it's relaxing to ramble about such topics. I don't watch TV or play games really these days, so it's nice to do while I take breaks from working, studying, researching, etc. Usually people I ramble to in person find my ramblings quite boring I suspect haha